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DragonFly users List (threaded) for 2010-09
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Re: USB image

From: Tomas Bodzar <tomas.bodzar@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 05:42:07 +0200

Hammer FS (or eg. ZFS on Solaris), SSI, swapcache, tmpfs, dhcpd, make
files, compiling, kernel config, pkgsrc and a lot of other stuff is
not intended for Need for speed players or script kitties. It's
intended for professionals as some other Unix-like systems.

End users don't need to care about details because professionals will
prepare servers/workstations/laptops for them and their use. Admin
don't need to be eg. insurance agent, he/she will just prepare tool
for that end user and from the other side; end users don't need to be
(or try so much) professionals in IT because it ends mostly with big

If someone wants toy full of holes, but with super duper colors and a
lot of buttons for clicking then he/she can choose Windows, MacOS or
Ubuntu and it's possible that he/she will be able to install it and
somewhat use it, but most probably it will not be correctly set in
these Internet (viruses, spyware,...) times because he/she will lack
informations and experience for proper administration.

When someone wants to go deeply in some area then there is only one
way - a lot of years of learning and experience. It does not change
just because we have Internet and PR materials from stupid vendors
talks lies. OS is very complex system - take it from the other side -
flying is so easy (at least for birds); why do I need to learn that
complicated stuff about mathematics, physic, meteorology and so on;
why there is not one-click-button-to-fly airplane? How about space
travelling? How about submarines? How about cars? Are you able to
create your own on same level of quality as from those companies? No?
Guess why - because you lack info and experience in that area as it's
not so easy and not because someone wants to be rude against you.

Can't understand why so much people is whining in IT area and don't
whine in those others :-)

Correction, a professional OS that requires its users to be
professionals.  Not a bunch of whining windows update people that have
to call "IT" to launch excel.  In case you hadn't noticed we are old
school UNIX users that don't mind fixing whatever problem is at hand.
Including writing code or fixing a bug.  This is why in the olden days
your IT department was worth something and wasn't a bunch of monkeys
reading a script.

It is exactly your attitude that has ruined the computer industry

Marco Peereboom - OpenBSD developer

(one of my favorite citations :-))

I'm more and more curious how girls and guys were able to work with
computers as there was not any X system, just terminal and they were
able to do financial stuff, advocacy, geology, mathematics, office and
so on. They were either crazy or had more knowledge or maybe there
weren't simply crazy and it was something like challenge for them to
learn something new instead of saying - I will not work with that
because it has no buttons and GUI.

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 3:40 AM, Tron <tron@hotbox.ru> wrote:
>    Thanks Dylan, it is clear now.
>    However, given your example of those other Linux ditro's, I am wondering
> why the DF group decided to build their images this way if there is an
> alternative.  I mean if DF seriously  wants to expand its ranks the best way
> is from the herds of Windows users and most of them know nothing about
> Unix.  So the easier the route to see what DF can do - the more likely is
> someone to put in the effort.  With this USB example alone: first, a newbie
> has to get the USB image, second realize (probably the hard way 'cause there
> is no mention of this on the download page) that the writing app is
> completely different from the one they use to write their CD images with and
> ultimately see that even though the DF image is small he can't move anything
> else onto the flash disk (which may be particularly frustrating if they only
> have the big one they just bought)...  I think it is easy to see how many
> novices may get discouraged with DF and give up almost before they began.
> Fortunately, I am strongly motivated, have been to DF's IRC channel before
> and have finally succeeded in signing up on this help list (which also
> wasn't the most straight forward thing ever... and could not have happened
> without my knowledge of IRC).  My point is, I think you are a great bunch of
> guys who have done one hell of a job, but if you want to attract not just
> the most experience computer users, the route from A-B, never mind from A-Z
> should be easier.
> Many thanks,
> Tron.
> On 9/28/2010 8:56 PM, Dylan Reinhold wrote:
> Tron,
>   Yes you are correct this would completely re write the stick with this
> image.
> The way DFly build their USB images means this is the only way.
> I know some Linux distro's have some ways to allow you to drop the files on
> a fat[32] formated drive and run a command to boot.
> So when you want you disk back do will need to refomat it, saveing the
> current image might work also.
> Hope this helps,
> Dylan
> On 09/28/2010 05:42 PM, Tron wrote:
> An off the shelf flash drive allows standard copy operations of files under
> windows.  I imagine that writing a non win OS image would erase everything
> on that flash drive making it unusable for further storage of other
> (windows) data.  I don't know if USB flash drives are formated for NTFS,
> FAT32 or what but if I should want to use this drive under windows again,
> would I have to reformat it after DF (kind of like a hard drive)?  Or make
> an image of an empty USB drive for ease of later restoration before I
> through on a DF image?  Or is it possible to reserve space on a large USB
> for diff OS's (like partitioning HD's), or..?  (Hope the question isn't too
> idiotic but I haven't done anything like this with flash drives before).
> On 9/26/2010 4:21 PM, Dylan Reinhold wrote:
> On 09/26/2010 01:32 PM, tron wrote:
>  If I want to copy the DF USB image onto my USB
> stick and I am working under WinXP, can I open the
> archive with 7zip and just copy the resulting
> files/folders to the stick or will I need a special app
> for installing the image to the USB stick?  (Sorry if
> this sounds dumb, but I am only used to the world
> of Windows and the handbook on DF page only
> discusses installation with CD.)
> You should be able to use Image Writter
> https://launchpad.net/win32-image-writer
> Dylan

“If you’re good at something, never do it for free.” —The Joker

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